Quote from Monsoon111 on March 2, 2022, 6:34 pm

Interesting point Paul. I was also massively for the handicap system. For that reason I see little enjoyment for scrapping after first half of season, however I believe a max start of 50 should be introduced. Maybe worth a try. Not up to me of course as it’s the players league so would be interested in how others feel?

Quote from Jackal147 on March 3, 2022, 11:03 am

Quote from Hardy on March 2, 2022, 4:44 pm

Hi guys

Just a thought on the handicap system

As one of the players that pushed for handicaps to start in the league but I do feel we need to have another look at it.

Several years on and the handicaps have massively increased to a point where some weeks players like myself are conceding frames with several reds on the table which is not much fun for us either

I know there's a happy place in the middle somewhere

Would players consider playing 1st half season with handicaps and 2nd half off scratch ?

I just thought it it is worth considering as it would make the race to the final line a bit more interesting also

Just trying to suggest a option to cater to all standards

Paul

 

 

 

Paul,

As a very famous quote reads " You can't please everybody all of the time just some people some of the time" In my opinion and only my opinion giving such big starts when not playing enough to justify winning enough games is pointless !!! As nearly every week like Paul says we are conceding frames with reds on the table and normally it was said that in the end it will even itself out well I'm sorry that days are gone I mean no disrespect to the teams that are at the top of the league but none from these teams would be there if things changed and they might say fuck it its not fair so we aren't playing !!! so I don't know the answer 🤔🤔🤔🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ As David Frost famously said " Aberdeen Snooker it's over to you" what does everybody else think

Mark

Quote from Hardy on March 3, 2022, 3:52 pm

Hi Dek

Thanks for the reply

Most weeks I would say I'm giving between 40 and 55  average start

So taking it down to 50 is going do very little diffrence to our Tuesday nights.John and Marc would be the only players that would benefit from dropping to 50 max

Appreciate everyone going have different views on it and we would probably start getting big wins but we're also getting heavy defeats most weeks and nobody's cares about that lol

I think our team probably has the most players with - starts in the league and when u see we are 3rd bottom kinda indicates we're struggling with this inflated handicaps which has happened over the years.

Paul

Quote from Robbo on March 4, 2022, 10:18 am

Hi Paul / Guys

I appreciate what you are going through and yes I agree that some of the handicap system is against some players. I feel that all should be trying to win and play snooker by encouraging to break build as the handicap is supposed to level the different abilities??? but you will still get some trying to put colours safe and negative snooker!!!!

But also look at the one table teams you either go up two or down two and that has an effect on the handicap you cant get a draw to stay the same most of us aren't consistent enough to get wins every week and certainly god forbid players playing to lose to keep a handicap up??????

I think that maybe we put it into sections again where we did something like this before maybe in some of the comps. Maybe sections like the high breaks

-40+ -to -20

-20 -Scr

Scr - 20

20 - 40

40 +

and if in the sections players play each other they are of scratch and -/+ 20 if in others

 

Just a thought! maybe tough on your team though as you have most of the minus players

Don't know the best way, but certainly needs look at

Quote from Monsoon111 on March 4, 2022, 1:43 pm

I think the only answer is to cap the start or leave as is. From reviewing the handicaps there is little changes, this suggests the top players are getting a share of winning. On average this equates to a lot of draws which I guess is the whole point. There will always be high handicappers who have a good day or the balls go awkward.

The fact that any team can win the league is surely what we needed rather than a team made up of the best players winning every season.

we could cap the start at 40 unless your minus handicap is more than minus 40, then it goes to 70 max? This way we maintain the handicaps for seeding and counties selection etc.

Would be good to here the opinion of some high handicappers.

Quote from AlecMain on March 4, 2022, 9:47 pm

For what it’s worth here is my view on how we could improve the current system with little change to the current set-up to make it a bit fairer.

Scoring on your own tables, where you know the table, pace, balls, bounce, rolls etc. is a real possibility and something I am comfortable with.

However travelling to an away club and giving the home player (who has the advantage of knowing the table, bounce, balls, rolls etc) a 40 - 50 point start (equivalent to maybe a 8 or 9 reds & colours start for us amateurs) seems excessive, as scoring in conditions unfamiliar and inconsistent for the away player is a much harder prospect.

Therefore I would propose the following simple change:  If the away player is giving a start to the home player then this handicap would be calculated as normal and then halved (open to alternative numbers).

Interested to hear thoughts on this one?

Alec

Quote from Jackal147 on March 5, 2022, 8:50 am

Quote from AlecMain on March 4, 2022, 9:47 pm

For what it’s worth here is my view on how we could improve the current system with little change to the current set-up to make it a bit fairer.

Scoring on your own tables, where you know the table, pace, balls, bounce, rolls etc. is a real possibility and something I am comfortable with.

However travelling to an away club and giving the home player (who has the advantage of knowing the table, bounce, balls, rolls etc) a 40 - 50 point start (equivalent to maybe a 8 or 9 reds & colours start for us amateurs) seems excessive, as scoring in conditions unfamiliar and inconsistent for the away player is a much harder prospect.

Therefore I would propose the following simple change:  If the away player is giving a start to the home player then this handicap would be calculated as normal and then halved (open to alternative numbers).

Interested to hear thoughts on this one?

Alec

Hi Alec, Dek,Paul etc

I agree with Alec that when you have knowledge regarding the table which when your the home player you are more likely to be able to score enough points to make a game of it than when your the away player and unfortunately can be sometimes pointless playing. But  I also think the condition of the table your playing on makes a huge difference for example if every table in every club were perfect it would be great 👍😁👍 but unfortunately the clubs are all struggling due to the times we are living in and some tables are impossible to score on whether its the balls,cloth etc.🙈🙈🙈

I also agree with Dek regarding without the handicaps it would be the same manufactured team that would win it year after year i.e Health Board, Oldmachar, etc so If we could agree on something in between like capping it at like 40-50 start max and the following week everbody plays off scratch ???

I personally think that this would sharpen up most players up and give the better players/teams more incentive to fight to the end of the league and make the second half more interesting and competitive for everybody and not just the high handicappers running away with it and nothing to play for ???

Mark

Quote from Thommo6 on March 5, 2022, 12:30 pm

Ok would have to say that I don't think I have ever read so much nonsense as has been posted on here.

The discussion was started by Paul complaining that he and his team are conceding frames with reds on the table, when the facts show that Paul's handicap has moved from -20 to -22 this season?

Since the handicap league was started in 2014/15 I believe there has been 5 different winners when the league has been completed. Those winners were Oldmachar 2(low h'caps), Culter 2, 22 Club(low h'caps), Oldmachar 1(low h'caps). The other winner I think were Transport although the league table for 2016/17 does not come up on here for some reason? For someone to say the teams with high handicappers are dominating is completely untrue. The team who finished bottom of the league in the first season 2014/15 were Sportsmans 2 and currently they are still bottom despite having the squad of players with the highest handicaps in the league.

People also talking about playing games of scratch when there is a difference of over 140 points from the lowest handicap player to the highest. Would think the majority would pack it in if that came about. Maybe next season someone propose 1 league for players wanting to play off scratch and 1 league for handicap?

Personally think there is nothing wrong with the league as it is. It always seems to be  competitive right to the end with a few teams having a chance to win it. From watching my own teams games most weeks the vast majority of frames go to the wire.

Finally from me the last winner of the handicap singles tournament was Mark Oaten!

 

Quote from Hardy on March 5, 2022, 2:55 pm

Hi David

Totally appreciate your opinion but as u pointed out I've won 1 game more than I have lost all season.I don't want see one team win every season so please don't think that .I don't really just want speak about myself either but I went home few weeks ago scoring 3 points and frame was over with 6 or 7 reds still in play.is that fair when giving big starts and he scores 30 and I am tatties.Im sure our handicaps were bigger since last time we won the league which shows the point I first made that there getting bigger and bigger.I never said I knew all the answers 😉